De Cómo El Handicap De Los Hoyos No Es El Que Es....

[JoaquinSierraAndres]

Pues nada, que al darme de alta en el Rincón del Jugador en la página de la Federación, previo pago de los 12 €urazos de impuesto revolucionario, he accedido a todos los datos de mis partidas, y me he dicho : Vamos a analizar los resultados de cada hoyo en mi campo habitual !

Vaya sorpresas que me he llevado!!!

- Resulta que mi hoyo handicap 1 es el handicap 18 del campo!!! El supuestamente más fácil es el más difícil para mi, haciendo 2.1 golpes de media más (con lo que no puntúo nunca, claro...)

- Mi Amen Corner particular son los hoyos 14, 15 y 16, de handicaps reales 18, 16 y 8, en los que hago de media 1.7 golpes de más

- En el resto de los hoyos, más o menos normal, siendo mi mejor hoyo el 7, un par 3 de unos 140m handicap 15, que lo hago en -0.1 golpes (casi siempre par y algún birdie). El hoyo 3 que es handicap 2, la media es de +1 golpes, bogey, bueeeno...

Por lo tanto, de ahora en adelante voy a jugar mi Amen Corner al bogey, e intentaré escapar de allí vivo, con +1 global sobre los tres hoyos, ya que es allí donde estoy jodiendo la tarjeta. Siempre sabía que se me daban mal, pero al ir a los frios números, me he quedado eso, helado

¿Alguno habeis analizado esto alguna vez, habeis puesto un plan de juego para estos hoyos y la estrategia os ha dado resultado?

Contaré cómo me ha ido próximamente

[Manu]

Joaquín, yo a un analisis tan profundo de momento no llego.

Sin embargo, me dí cuenta que en mi campo habitual de juego (Santa Clara Golf, en Marbella), en las fichas de actividad de los torneos jugados, efectivamente, hay un descontrol total con los handicaps de los hoyos, ya que están todos cambiados.

Se lo hice saber al caddy master, por si querían hablar con la Federación para corregirlo. De momento sigue igual

[JoaquinSierraAndres]

Joaquín, yo a un analisis tan profundo de momento no llego.

Sin embargo, me dí cuenta que en mi campo habitual de juego (Santa Clara Golf, en Marbella), en las fichas de actividad de los torneos jugados, efectivamente, hay un descontrol total con los handicaps de los hoyos, ya que están todos cambiados.

Se lo hice saber al caddy master, por si querían hablar con la Federación para corregirlo. De momento sigue igual

Bueno, en mi campo el hoyo 14 handicap 18 realmente debe ser el handicap 15 del campo o así, el Presidente del Comité de Competición me lo ha reconocido pero dice que tienen muchas tarjetas impresas y que por eso no lo cambian de momento

Yo me refiero más bien a que determinados hoyos, se nos atraviesan a cada uno particularmente, sin tener relación con el handicap que ostentan oficialmente, y cómo darse cuenta y reaccionar a eso.

[rabazo]

jejeje, es cierto, yo creo que todos tenemos algún hoyo atravesado y suele coincidir con que es de los más fáciles del campo donde habitualmente jugamos. El mío es un par 3 de hierro 7, imposible que coja green . Es más problema de coco que de otra cosa.

[Tito Fran]

¿pero están mal los datos de la federación o es que a cada handicap de jugador le aplican un handicap para los hoyos? Porque eso ya sería el caos a la hora de puntuar en un torneo o incluso de sacar los puntos en una partida entre amigos.

[pizo]

Yo por ejemplo en Alcarria, el hcp 18 (el hoyo 4 par 4) no me parece el más fácil. Además lo tengo ligeramente atravesado, pocos pares le he sacado.

[twin]

lo de los hándicaps nunca se va a llegar a un acuerdo porque siempre va a haber hoyos que se nos den mejor o peor.
de todos modos creo que en la mayoría y tal como aconseja el libro verde se calculan haciendo la media anual de un numero determinado de bajos, medios y altos(para mi gusto, solución mas justa no hay o no se me ocurre)

[Ballbreaker]

Handicap 18, 17, 16 y 15 del CNG los cuatro pares 3, pues vale!

[Disperso]

Yo por ejemplo en Alcarria, el hcp 18 (el hoyo 4 par 4) no me parece el más fácil. Además lo tengo ligeramente atravesado, [b]pocos pares le he sacado[/b].

¿Y?

[lsub]

Del manual del sistema hcp de la USGA.

Section 17 ALLOCATION OF HANDICAP STROKES
Definitions
Within each section, all defined terms are in italics and are listed alphabetically in Section 2 - Definitions.
17-1. Discretion of Committee
The following procedure is recommended for allocating handicap strokes. The procedure is not mandatory because it has minimal effect on handicaps. Good judgment is of prime importance because no formula can cover conditions on every golf course. The Handicap Committee should review the course hole by hole, bearing in mind that the basic principle is to equalize the abilities of players at different handicap levels. Men's and women's stroke allocations will usually be different because their need to equalize holes will come on different holes. Common sense will dictate how closely the recommendations may be followed. A handicap stroke should be an equalizer and should be available on a hole where it most likely will be needed by the higher-handicapped player to obtain a half in singles or four-ball match play. Difficulty in making par on a hole is not an effective indicator of the need for a stroke.
In allocating the order of handicap strokes to the 18 holes of a golf course, consideration should be given to the likelihood of the strokes being equalizers rather than winning strokes. To accomplish this objective, the following guidelines are recommended:
a. Basis of Allocation
Allocate strokes based on play of the course from the tee markers used most often by the majority of club members.
Allocate the first stroke to the hole on the first nine on which the higher-handicapped player most needs a stroke as an equalizer and the second stroke to the hole on the second nine on which the higher-handicapped player most needs a stroke as an equalizer. Alternate in this manner for the full 18 holes.
Generally the longer the hole, the greater the need for the higher-handicapped player to receive a stroke.
b. Distribution of Strokes
(i) Odd Strokes/Even Strokes
The USGA recommends that the odd-numbered strokes be assigned to the holes on the first nine and the even-numbered strokes to the holes on the second nine.
This format equalizes, as nearly as possible, the distribution of handicap strokes over the entire 18 holes, and makes matches more equitable. In a case where the second nine is decidedly more difficult than the first nine, consideration should be given to allocating odd-numbered strokes to the second nine.
(ii) Importance of Low Strokes
The first handicap stroke should be allocated so that this stroke is most useful in matches between players of almost equal ability, such as matches involving players with a Course Handicap of 0 and 1, 10 and 11, or 29 and 30. In such matches, the first handicap stroke will be of the greatest importance as an equalizer to the player receiving the stroke.
In allocating the second handicap stroke, matches between players having a slightly greater difference in Course Handicap should be given the most consideration, such as matches involving players with a Course Handicap of 0 and 2, 10 and 12, or 29 and 31. This process should be continued until the first six strokes have been assigned.
Without substantially deviating from the above principles, allocating low-numbered strokes to holes near the end of each nine should be avoided so that players receiving strokes will have the opportunity to use these strokes before either nine or 18-hole matches are decided. Lower-numbered strokes should not be allocated to the first and second holes of a course in the event that a hole-by-hole playoff is necessary.

17-2. Allocation Based on Scores
A mathematical method for allocating strokes, based on the principle that a handicap stroke should be an equalizer when an average or high-handicapped player plays a low-handicapped player, follows. This procedure may be applied separately with men's scores and women's scores.
Note: When using all score methods, the Handicap Committee must give priority to the considerations of 17-1. See step (vii) below.
a. Comparison Method
(i) Collect about 200 hole-by-hole scores of a group of players (Group A) with a Course Handicap not exceeding 8 strokes for men and 14 strokes for women. A club having a limited number of low-handicapped players may use 200 scores from 25 percent of its players with the lowest Course Handicap. These scores should not be adjusted by Equitable Stroke Control.
(ii) Average the score for each hole for Group A, and average the Course Handicap of the players in Group A.
(iii) Collect about 200 hole-by-hole scores of a middle- to high-handicapped group of players (Group B). The average of the Course Handicap of each player in Group B should be 15 to 20 strokes higher than the average for each player in Group A. It is preferable for the Course Handicap of each player in Group B to range from 20 to 28 strokes for men and from 26 to 40 strokes for women. These scores should not be adjusted by Equitable Stroke Control.
(iv) Average the score for each hole for Group B and average the Course Handicap of the players in Group B.
(v) Determine the difference in the average scores for each group on each hole by subtracting the average score of Group A from the average score of Group B.
(vi) List the holes in order from 1 through 18 with corresponding Group A average scores, Group B average scores and average score difference. Rank the holes with the hole having the highest average score difference first, and so on. The hole ranked number 1 is the hole on which the higher-handicapped player most needs a stroke. Continue the rankings through 18.
(vii) Modify the rankings of the holes, as based on average-score differences in accordance with Section 17-1b on distribution of strokes, and in accordance with Notes 1 and 2 below.

Note 1: Occasionally, this method will result in one hole (Hole A) ranked ahead of another hole (Hole B). The committee believes that Hole B should be ranked ahead of Hole A. The committee may first determine the average range by subtracting the average-score difference of the 18th ranked hole from the average-score difference of the first ranked hole and divide the result by 18. If the difference between the average-score differences of Holes A and B is no greater than the average range, it would be appropriate for the committee to rank Hole B ahead of Hole A.

Note 2: A hole with a water hazard that presents a significant problem for high-handicapped players may be ranked as the first or second handicap-stroke hole based on its average-score difference. The committee believes that this ranking is not justified when players of comparable ability are competing. In this instance, the committee may downgrade the ranking of the hole. The committee should always use good judgment in deciding what will give fair results.
b. Regression Method
An alternative method of allocating handicap strokes which uses all data points is to use linear regression. A minimum of 400 hole-by-hole scores is required from players representing the full range of Course Handicap. This is similar to the method in "Section 17-2a" of allocating handicap strokes using a large number of scores, but instead of comparing an average of scores among two distinctively-defined groups (Group A and B) with a large disparity in Course Handicap, the regression method uses all scores covering the whole Course Handicap range to allocate handicap strokes.
Step 1: Collect a large number N (at least 400 (more is better)) hole-by-hole scores from the same tee and gender.
Step 2: For each hole, take each of the hole-by-hole Course Handicap/score pairs and
Compute:
1) The sum of all the Course Handicaps = S1 (this value is the same for all holes)
2) The sum of all the scores = S2
3) Compute square of each Course Handicap and then sum all these squared values = S3 (this value is also the same for all holes)
4) Compute the product of Course Handicap multiplied by score for each handicap/score pair and then sum these values = S4
5) Compute the difference factor (DF)
DF = (N x S4) - (S1 x S2) divided by (N x S3) - (S12)
Step 3: Rank all holes based on this DF value. The greater the DF the greater the expected score difference between a low and a high handicapped golfer (i.e., the hole with largest DF is handicap-stroke hole number one).
Step 4: Assign the final allocation of handicap strokes based on Committee's discretion.

Existen distintas formulas para establecer el índice hcp de los hoyos, .. pero no tiene porque ser siempre que los hoyos numerados como 1, 2, .. tengan que ser los más difíciles.

[Disperso]

Según los 9 campeonatos que jugué en 2007 en el RACE, mi orden de dificultad sería:

Hdc 4 (hoyo 12): +1,7
Hdc 7 (hoyo 4): +1,6
Hdc 2 (hoyo 16): +1,4
Hdc 10 (hoyo 10): +1,3 Odio profundamente a este hoyo. La salida es muy incómoda y me puedo quedar con facilidad sin tiro a green o, incluso, perder bola
Hdc 13 (hoyo 7): +1,3 Se me hace complicado medir la distancia a green y no hay muchos sitios llanos en calle, por lo que este 2º tiro suele ser incómodo.
Hdc 3 (hoyo 5): +1,2 Es un par 5 largo y con la entrada de green muy protegida por encinas. Antes de usar el driver, hice +1,75 en 4 campeonatos y desde que lo uso, +0,8 en 5 campeonatos.
Hdc 14 (hoyo 18): +1,2 No me gusta nada este hoyo. La salida la encuentro incómoda y no hay mucho sitio llano para dar el 2º golpe desde el que no ves un green en alto.
Hdc 8 (hoyo 15): +1,1
Hdc 1 (hoyo 6): +1
Hdc 5 (hoyo 3): +1 EL COCO. Me ha sorprendido que esté tan abajo en la tabla, pero es que un birdie ha bajado mucho la media.
Hdc 12 (hoyo 17): +1
Hdc 15 (hoyo 1): +0,9 Par 5 facilito, no está mejor colocado por dos triples bogeys (por FL)
Hdc 11 (hoyo 2): +0,8
Hdc 6 (hoyo 13): +0,7 Par 3 de 200 metros. No suelo hacerle más de bogey y una salida decente me deja el par a mano
Hdc 16 (hoyo 14): + 0,7
Hdc 9 (hoyo 9): +0,4 Curiosamente, otro par 3 que se me da bien ¡Con lo poco que me gustan!
Hdc 18 (hoyo 11): +0,3
Hdc 17 (hoyo : + 0,2

Bueno, pues no hay muchas sorpresas para el juego tan poco ortodoxo que suelo desplegar.

[F B I]

Del manual del sistema hcp de la USGA.

[b]Section 17 ALLOCATION OF HANDICAP STROKES
Definitions[/b]
Within each section, all defined terms are in italics and are listed alphabetically in Section 2 - Definitions.
[b]17-1. Discretion of Committee[/b]
The following procedure is recommended for allocating handicap strokes. The procedure is not mandatory because it has minimal effect on handicaps. Good judgment is of prime importance because no formula can cover conditions on every golf course. The Handicap Committee should review the course hole by hole, bearing in mind that the basic principle is to equalize the abilities of players at different handicap levels. Men's and women's stroke allocations will usually be different because their need to equalize holes will come on different holes. Common sense will dictate how closely the recommendations may be followed. A handicap stroke should be an equalizer and should be available on a hole where it most likely will be needed by the higher-handicapped player to obtain a half in singles or four-ball match play. Difficulty in making par on a hole is not an effective indicator of the need for a stroke.
In allocating the order of handicap strokes to the 18 holes of a golf course, consideration should be given to the likelihood of the strokes being equalizers rather than winning strokes. To accomplish this objective, the following guidelines are recommended:
a. Basis of Allocation
Allocate strokes based on play of the course from the tee markers used most often by the majority of club members.
Allocate the first stroke to the hole on the first nine on which the higher-handicapped player most needs a stroke as an equalizer and the second stroke to the hole on the second nine on which the higher-handicapped player most needs a stroke as an equalizer. Alternate in this manner for the full 18 holes.
Generally the longer the hole, the greater the need for the higher-handicapped player to receive a stroke.
b. Distribution of Strokes
(i) Odd Strokes/Even Strokes
The USGA recommends that the odd-numbered strokes be assigned to the holes on the first nine and the even-numbered strokes to the holes on the second nine.
This format equalizes, as nearly as possible, the distribution of handicap strokes over the entire 18 holes, and makes matches more equitable. In a case where the second nine is decidedly more difficult than the first nine, consideration should be given to allocating odd-numbered strokes to the second nine.
(ii) Importance of Low Strokes
The first handicap stroke should be allocated so that this stroke is most useful in matches between players of almost equal ability, such as matches involving players with a Course Handicap of 0 and 1, 10 and 11, or 29 and 30. In such matches, the first handicap stroke will be of the greatest importance as an equalizer to the player receiving the stroke.
In allocating the second handicap stroke, matches between players having a slightly greater difference in Course Handicap should be given the most consideration, such as matches involving players with a Course Handicap of 0 and 2, 10 and 12, or 29 and 31. This process should be continued until the first six strokes have been assigned.
Without substantially deviating from the above principles, allocating low-numbered strokes to holes near the end of each nine should be avoided so that players receiving strokes will have the opportunity to use these strokes before either nine or 18-hole matches are decided. Lower-numbered strokes should not be allocated to the first and second holes of a course in the event that a hole-by-hole playoff is necessary.

[b]17-2. Allocation Based on Scores[/b]
A mathematical method for allocating strokes, based on the principle that a handicap stroke should be an equalizer when an average or high-handicapped player plays a low-handicapped player, follows. This procedure may be applied separately with men's scores and women's scores.
Note: When using all score methods, the Handicap Committee must give priority to the considerations of 17-1. See step (vii) below.
[b] a. Comparison Method[/b]
(i) Collect about 200 hole-by-hole scores of a group of players (Group A) with a Course Handicap not exceeding 8 strokes for men and 14 strokes for women. A club having a limited number of low-handicapped players may use 200 scores from 25 percent of its players with the lowest Course Handicap. These scores should not be adjusted by Equitable Stroke Control.
(ii) Average the score for each hole for Group A, and average the Course Handicap of the players in Group A.
(iii) Collect about 200 hole-by-hole scores of a middle- to high-handicapped group of players (Group B). The average of the Course Handicap of each player in Group B should be 15 to 20 strokes higher than the average for each player in Group A. It is preferable for the Course Handicap of each player in Group B to range from 20 to 28 strokes for men and from 26 to 40 strokes for women. These scores should not be adjusted by Equitable Stroke Control.
(iv) Average the score for each hole for Group B and average the Course Handicap of the players in Group B.
(v) Determine the difference in the average scores for each group on each hole by subtracting the average score of Group A from the average score of Group B.
(vi) List the holes in order from 1 through 18 with corresponding Group A average scores, Group B average scores and average score difference. Rank the holes with the hole having the highest average score difference first, and so on. The hole ranked number 1 is the hole on which the higher-handicapped player most needs a stroke. Continue the rankings through 18.
(vii) Modify the rankings of the holes, as based on average-score differences in accordance with Section 17-1b on distribution of strokes, and in accordance with Notes 1 and 2 below.

Note 1: Occasionally, this method will result in one hole (Hole A) ranked ahead of another hole (Hole B). The committee believes that Hole B should be ranked ahead of Hole A. The committee may first determine the average range by subtracting the average-score difference of the 18th ranked hole from the average-score difference of the first ranked hole and divide the result by 18. If the difference between the average-score differences of Holes A and B is no greater than the average range, it would be appropriate for the committee to rank Hole B ahead of Hole A.

Note 2: A hole with a water hazard that presents a significant problem for high-handicapped players may be ranked as the first or second handicap-stroke hole based on its average-score difference. The committee believes that this ranking is not justified when players of comparable ability are competing. In this instance, the committee may downgrade the ranking of the hole. The committee should always use good judgment in deciding what will give fair results.
[b] b. Regression Method[/b]
An alternative method of allocating handicap strokes which uses all data points is to use linear regression. A minimum of 400 hole-by-hole scores is required from players representing the full range of Course Handicap. This is similar to the method in "Section 17-2a" of allocating handicap strokes using a large number of scores, but instead of comparing an average of scores among two distinctively-defined groups (Group A and B) with a large disparity in Course Handicap, the regression method uses all scores covering the whole Course Handicap range to allocate handicap strokes.
Step 1: Collect a large number N (at least 400 (more is better)) hole-by-hole scores from the same tee and gender.
Step 2: For each hole, take each of the hole-by-hole Course Handicap/score pairs and
Compute:
1) The sum of all the Course Handicaps = S1 (this value is the same for all holes)
2) The sum of all the scores = S2
3) Compute square of each Course Handicap and then sum all these squared values = S3 (this value is also the same for all holes)
4) Compute the product of Course Handicap multiplied by score for each handicap/score pair and then sum these values = S4
5) Compute the difference factor (DF)
DF = (N x S4) - (S1 x S2) divided by (N x S3) - (S12)
Step 3: Rank all holes based on this DF value. The greater the DF the greater the expected score difference between a low and a high handicapped golfer (i.e., the hole with largest DF is handicap-stroke hole number one).
Step 4: Assign the final allocation of handicap strokes based on Committee's discretion.

Existen distintas formulas para establecer el índice hcp de los hoyos, .. pero no tiene porque ser siempre que los hoyos numerados como 1, 2, .. tengan que ser los más difíciles.

Me encanta esta claridad meridiana

[jandicap]

El resumen de Lsub en castellano dice más que las 1.500 líneas en inglés. Efectivamente, hay una serie de recomendaciones para asignar el handicap a un hoyo. Una de ellas es repartir la teórica dificultad en las dos vueltas (creo que recordar), no marcar con una dificultad similar más de dos hoyos seguidos, etc. Es por ello que la dificultad real de un hoyo no indica la real.

[JoaquinSierraAndres]

Bueno, después de tres partidas de golf con la táctica del bogey en mi amen corner particular, he hecho bogey-par-bogey, par-par-bogey, par-par-bogey, es decir, que he pasado de +1.7 de media en cada uno (+5 golpes) a +0.4 (+1.6 golpes), haciendo dos de los tres dias resultados bajo par (38, 37) y otro par (36)

[jandicap]

Bueno, después de tres partidas de golf con la táctica del bogey en mi amen corner particular, he hecho bogey-par-bogey, par-par-bogey, par-par-bogey, es decir, que he pasado de +1.7 de media en cada uno (+5 golpes) a +0.4 (+1.6 golpes), haciendo dos de los tres dias resultados bajo par (38, 37) y otro par (36)

No, si eso estaba cantado. Al jugar al bogey sacas más pares que si juegas al birdie. Vas más por el sitio y, normalmente, el último golpe es un approach corto, que en ocasiones te permite terminar con un putt y sacar el par. Lo difícil es concienciarse de ello. Enhorabuena.