Alertar De La Posibilidad De Tomar Alivio= Consejo?

[CarlosGM]

No hay penalidad. Simplemente le haces indicaciones sobre el procedimiento de alivio. Alivio que el jugador no estaba realizando conforme a las reglas. Ahí yo no tengo dudas. De momento...

[CarlosGM]

Muchos de vuestros comentarios tienen mucha lógica incluso los de algunos que se contradicen con los de otros.

Como es una situación ante la que me encuentro con cierta asiduidad, quiero tenerlo claro.

He planteado la cuestión a la autoridad en la materia - Royal and Ancient . . . - que para algo tienen el servicio de resolución de consultas en su web, y a ver qué dicen.

Os cuento cuando contesten.

Saludos.

[CarlosGM]

La respuesta obtenida de St. Andrews:

PRIMERO LA PREGUNTA:

A low handicaper player perfectly knows he can take relief when there is interference by an immovable obstruction (concrete road) prepares the stroke without taking relief for not realize that his ball was resting on an artificial way. It's clear the ball rest over an immovable obstruction but he is so concentrated that do not realize the situation and the options he has.

And the question is: Can a player warn about the possibility of taking relief? The player has prepared the stroke and it's crear he was not going to take relief. Or would incur a penalty?

I know that questions about rules are not "advice" but I think it depends on the situation.
I remark the facts: The player perfectly knows the rules (involved in the situation at least) , he has prepared the stroke and has not asked to anyone about his options.

This is a question not related with any competition.

Thank you.

Carlos Serna.
From Spain.

- Y LA RESPUESTA:

2012/8/30XXXXXX@randa.org>
Hi Carlos,

Providing you do not do it in such a way as could be construed to be giving the player advice as to how to play the shot then there would be no penalty. For example, it would be fine to say something along the lines of – ‘do you realise you are entitled to take relief from that path’ would be fine. However, see Decision 8-1/16 below for an example of what would not be allowed:

Decision 8-1/16 Suggesting to Competitor That He Declare His Ball Unplayable
Q. B's ball was lying badly. B was deliberating what action to take when A, his fellow-competitor, said: “You have no shot at all. If I were you, I would declare the ball unplayable”. Was A giving advice, contrary to Rule 8-1?
A. Yes. A's suggestion could have influenced B “in determining his play”. Thus, it constituted advice – see Definition of “Advice”. It did not constitute “information on the Rules”, which is not advice.

I trust this is of some assistance.

Kind Regards
Claire

From: Carlos Serna [mailto:cserna@economistas.org]
Sent: 30 August 2012 07:02
To: Claire Hargan
Subject: Re: R6/8-1

Thank you.

The doubt I had was about if the player who alerted the other about his options acording to the rules inccured or not in penalty.

Thanks again.
Best regards.


2012/8/29 Claire Hargan <ClaireHargan@randa.org>
Hi Carlos,

There is nothing in the Rules to stop a player from advising his fellow-competitor about points on the Rules (Rule 8-1). Whether you decide to say anything to your fellow competitor in the situation you described is up to you. However the player is entitled to play the ball as it lies if he opts to do so and would not be penalised.

I trust this is of some assistance.

Kind Regards
Claire

From: Claire Hargan
Sent: 27 August 2012 14:08
To: 'cserna@economistas.org'
Subject: R6a

Dear Mr Serna,

Thank you for your e-mail of 19 August in which you raised a query on the Rules of Golf.

I regret to inform you that the Rules of Golf Committee cannot answer queries unless they are rendered in accordance with Rule 34-3 of the Rules of Golf (see below). If your query is re-submitted through an authorised representative of the Committee, or if you would confirm whether you are an authorised member of the Committee, the Rules of Golf Committee will be in a position to reply.

Notwithstanding the above, if the incident happened in a non-competitive game, or it is just something that you are curious about, then please confirm that this is the case and I will be happy to answer your query.

Yours sincerely
CLAIRE HARGAN
Manager - Rules
The R&A, St Andrews, Fife, Scotland, KY16 9JD

[CarlosGM]

Traducción:

Advertir sin más al jugador de su opción de tomar alivio no supone penalidad para quien "alerta" al desconocedor o despistado. Por supuesto tampoco para el asesorado. . .

Saludos.

[JMmadrid]

Entiendo entonces que depende como se lo digas, por ejemplo, podrías decir:

"en la situación en la que estas las reglas te permiten alivio sin penalización por tal cosa"

Sin embargo no puedes decirle:

"yo pudiendo aliviarme como puedes no daría ese golpe"

[CarlosGM]

Eso es JMmadrid. Información aséptica sobre las reglas sí. La segunda intervención que mencionas se considera algo más que simple información sobre las reglas , entiendo, y por lo tanto considerada consejo.

Ej. "Por la derecha hay fuera de límites y por la izquierda aquel bunker está en reparación y por lo tanto te podrías aliviar al ser una condición anormal del terreno; yo que tú tiraba a la izquierda" Aquí se habla de reglas sí pero se sugiere como jugar el golpe . . . Penalidad.